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Old 10-17-2008, 01:35 AM View Post #81 (Link)
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McCain really stabs my apples. He's no good and I think he's gonna lose.
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Old 10-17-2008, 02:00 AM View Post #82 (Link)
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To get back on topic...

Who watched the debate last night? I think Obama came off a lot more in-control and calming. McCain was much edgier than he was in the last debate, and made more desperate attempts to make himself look better - they both did, but I think McCain more. Facial expressions were also interesting. Whenever McCain said something Obama disagreed with, Obama played it cool and just shook his head an smiled, waiting for McCain to finish so he could rebuttle, whereas McCain looked disgruntled and unsettled, and frequently tried to interrupt Obama.

In school we took a sort of questionair to see which candidate we agreed more with, without knowing which candidate we were supporting as we chose. Needless to say, it was really obvious who was who when it came to National Security and the War in Iraq. McCain's never been exactly quiet about his plans when it comes to the army.

Obama's education policy is also one which I favor. As most of us here are going to be moving into college during the next 4 or 8 years, if we aren't in college already, I think it's really important that we know what we can expect when we get there. I mean, college tution's skyrocketting. I know in Ireland, Trinity College is now having tutuion fees for the first time, because they can't get enough funding to send students there for free.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:47 AM View Post #83 (Link)
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Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
And there you go again. I went to public school, Alex. Have gone there my whole life. I guess I'm just a moron then. Us public school folks don't have the luxury of being guaranteed smart when we gradutate from our little ole schools. We all just end up at Taco Bell or Kmart. Yup. IQs of 10. We is just retards at our public schools. We can't never compare to all you gosh darn private school folks. Gee willickers. You all is so smart.

After this, Alex, you can't sit there and tell me that you aren't a snob. You keep referencing USF as if that's the only public school you can apply to...as if USF is all there is in the public school world. Wake up. Jesus. There is a big wide world out there full of public schools that just so happen to be good, some of them even better than all those stuck up Ivy League schools.

And it goes without saying that where you graduate from has less to do with job placement than how involved you are in your chosen campus. Maybe you should start thinking out of your narrow-minded box and look elsewhere for schools. USF isn't the only public school in the damned world, you know. There are others, lots of others. Better others. The idea that you have to go to a private school to be smart or successful is idiotic, Alex. It's a programmed mentality that you need to break.

I can only go to USF because I won't have to pay board because I live in tampa (only 1 year is forced to live on school campus) and I have florida pre-paid. So yes, its the only public school that makes logical sense to apply to because I go to a public school somewhere else I pay 10,000 a year in room and board, but if I go to somewhere like Tulane I pay around 15-20,000 total because of the immense scholarship bonuses. USF is the only place I can go where I would pay nearly no money.

Please point out to me where I insulted the intelligence of anyone at a public school. I mean my parents pay 15,000 dollars a year to send me to a private school so I get a better education, I'm sorry but yes, I feel my education has been better than that of a public school level, that is why I can take a class like precalculus two years earlier than at bay area public schools (that is just an example). If that makes me snobby to think my education is better then good golly gosh I guess I'm snobby as a royal prince.

I'm not saying I wouldn't work either, but its kind of hard trying to earn 50,000 dollars a year when I'm planning on double majoring. Áctually I'm not applying to one ivy league school. They are just nerd schools in the south, 'southern ivys' refers to their level of education, not their level of pretentiousness persay.. I don't like the northeast where all the actual ivys are anyway, too cold.

But I'll shut up now because its futile trying to argue when people don't know my situation (I can just see the next question I get is "well if your parents are paying that money now then why can't they pay it later" and I don't feel I have to answer than question for personal reasons).

So seriously, If I'm so damn snobby for wanting a high level of education so be it, I'm snobby. There, is everyone happy now? Good, its nice we could all agree on something.

((Sorry to take the thread off-topic again I just wanted to defend myself))
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						Last edited by Alex; 10-17-2008 at 04:01 AM.
Old 10-17-2008, 05:41 AM View Post #84 (Link)
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Originally Posted by Alex View Post
I can only go to USF because I won't have to pay board because I live in tampa (only 1 year is forced to live on school campus) and I have florida pre-paid. So yes, its the only public school that makes logical sense to apply to because I go to a public school somewhere else I pay 10,000 a year in room and board, but if I go to somewhere like Tulane I pay around 15-20,000 total because of the immense scholarship bonuses. USF is the only place I can go where I would pay nearly no money.
This tells me that you haven't even bothered researching other universities, Alex, because I can tell you right now that if your parents can afford to send you to an Ivy League school they can afford to send you to an out of state public school, and a good one at that.

Please point out to me where I insulted the intelligence of anyone at a public school. I mean my parents pay 15,000 dollars a year to send me to a private school so I get a better education, I'm sorry but yes, I feel my education has been better than that of a public school level, that is why I can take a class like precalculus two years earlier than at bay area public schools (that is just an example). If that makes me snobby to think my education is better then good golly gosh I guess I'm snobby as a royal prince.
I know people who are freshman in High School who are taking pre-calc, and others who have to go to college universities just to take the math courses they want to advance because their schools don't provide things like Analytical Geometry, etc.

Yes, it does make you snobby. You're making this sad assumption that private school automatically means better. I've known people who went to private school that only got into college because their parents were rich or they were at a private school, not because they had the brains or the drive to succeed in college. The same can be said at public school.

So seriously, If I'm so damn snobby for wanting a high level of education so be it, I'm snobby. There, is everyone happy now? Good, its nice we could all agree on something.
You're snobby because you think private school automatically means a higher level of education, which it doesn't. That's why you're snobby. It has nothing to do with wanting a good education, it's that you have assumed that only private schools provide that education, which makes you ignorant, arrogant, and snobbish on multiple levels and insulting to people who either choose to go to public school and apply themselves or who don't have rich parents to send them to these supposed "choice" schools. At the very least I feel better about my education because I actually had to work for it. It was never just handed to me on a silver platter and it never will be. I will always have to work hard to get the best education I can get.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:43 PM View Post #85 (Link)
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Alot of things have to go right for me to be able to go out of state to any school, Ivy or public, and one of them is hoping my dad is still alive by then so he can help with the cost so please don't patronize me for wanting to do what they have pushed for their entire lives. They know what its like to not have an education, they lived in Communist fucking Romania, and I'm sorry that they want the best for me. Also, in terms of working for it, I'm still 15 as of now and unless I'm going to find a way to go to the Publix 20 minutes away to work as a bag boy for 4$ an hour, 2 hours a day, then I'm sorry but that just isn't possible right now and won't be for at least a few months.

It really makes me feel like a failure when I know my parents have worked their entire life to put in the best situation possible and know that right before my dad's death I'll tell him "Hey Great News. I got into USF". "Yep, yep all that money you spent sending me to Berkeley instead of getting better treatment at places like M.D. Anderson in Houston, just look at where it got me". What am I if he can come from a family of 18 in poverty after the Communist regime took away his parent's livelihood ((they owned stoors that got taken away when he was 4)) and work his way to the top of his occupation in the country ((hydroelectric engineer/dams and such)) then get out of the country, finally get to America with 30$ and turn it into 2 million (of which almost all is gone either in medical expenses, my tuition, or my parent's divorce fees) so he could put me in any school he wanted. Me? Oh I just get 15,000 a year to work with and I turn it into USF. I'm sorry that makes me seem like a failure in comparison. My parents always told me my job is to study and get into the best place you can, and while looking back I could've done better, I've done pretty well at that, and while they say thats all they ask for no matter what comes out of the situation I'm not naive enough to think its true.

I'm not saying my life is worse than anyones, I understand my situation is better than most, than almost all, but that doesn't automatically mean I can't worry about myself. "Oh, there is someone who needs blood, I've already donated 20 gallons today, but just a little more can't hurt" I'm sorry I don't want to have that mentallity.

As sad as it is it doens't matter about the quality of the education, it matters about the name. Why do you think UVA is still considered by many to be an average school when it is a better school than an Ivy League Columbia (then again alot of schools are better than Columbia). Its because of a name. When someone sees two people, one from UVA and then sees one from Columbia with identical records who do you think they are going to take. I'm not saying its right but its how the world works and I'm willing to play the game if it gives me a better shot at being successful.

So if I'm still going to be barated so be it, but if you would be so kind as to do it either behind my back or through PM so this thread can get back to its original intent. Sorry that this discussion has hijacked it.
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Old 10-17-2008, 05:31 PM View Post #86 (Link)
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Might as well pop my head in this thread.

Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
This tells me that you haven't even bothered researching other universities, Alex, because I can tell you right now that if your parents can afford to send you to an Ivy League school they can afford to send you to an out of state public school, and a good one at that.
I'm not sure exactly what you were saying, but you do know that Ivy Leagues have some of the most generous financial aid policies in the country? If your parents' income is under $60,000, you basically go to an Ivy League for free.

Money really has nothing to do with schools anymore; in fact, it's the rich who are getting screwed because now the poor get a free ride wherever and whenever they feel like it, including college costs. Sounds a little like reverse-discrimination, eh?

I know people who are freshman in High School who are taking pre-calc, and others who have to go to college universities just to take the math courses they want to advance because their schools don't provide things like Analytical Geometry, etc.
I agree, Alex needs to be a little more subjective when talking about schools - after all, I go to one of the most prestigious public schools in the country, which means I get a better education than 99% of private schools in my area. And at this point, I'm pretty much done with all the credits required for college-freshman year although I'm still in high school, because I felt the drive to take those courses. Again, its all subjective.

However, when talking about colleges, it's always better to go to a private school than a public school. Almost always. Public schools are generally obscenely larger, shorter on cash, and less concerned with their students' academic welfare than private schools. An education at USF is nothing like an education at Harvard, MIT, U Chicago, Rice, Northwestern, Cornell, Emory...the list goes on and on. Public universities just can't compare.

You're snobby because you think private school automatically means a higher level of education, which it doesn't. That's why you're snobby. It has nothing to do with wanting a good education, it's that you have assumed that only private schools provide that education, which makes you ignorant, arrogant, and snobbish on multiple levels and insulting to people who either choose to go to public school and apply themselves or who don't have rich parents to send them to these supposed "choice" schools. At the very least I feel better about my education because I actually had to work for it. It was never just handed to me on a silver platter and it never will be. I will always have to work hard to get the best education I can get.
Again, this is subjective. If you go to a good public school, then sure, private schooling is no better. Still, most public schools are hampered by many of the issues that I mentioned above for public universities, and this does make private schooling the better option in most places. In my town, it's exactly the opposite because of how rich the general population is, thus allowing the public schools to get more funds; that's not the case most of the time, though. Alex is right; when in doubt, choose a private school if you want a quality education.

Originally Posted by Imelda
There are some people (probably on this site) who have next to no money, have never been to private school, have unsupportive parents, and who will still do everything they can to get into a great university.
Define great university. USF is not a great university...actually, none of the public colleges besides the top echleon (UBerkeley, UCLA, UWashington, UVA, and UMichigan if I remember correctly) are that good comparatively.
  
						Last edited by Diocletian; 10-17-2008 at 05:38 PM.
Old 10-17-2008, 05:47 PM View Post #87 (Link)
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Originally Posted by Diocletian View Post
I'm not sure exactly what you were saying, but you do know that Ivy Leagues have some of the most generous financial aid policies in the country? If your parents' income is under $60,000, you basically go to an Ivy League for free.

Money really has nothing to do with schools anymore; in fact, it's the rich who are getting screwed because now the poor get a free ride wherever and whenever they feel like it, including college costs. Sounds a little like reverse-discrimination, eh?
Alex is not one of those poor folks. His family makes well above 60K. So that point is completely irrelevant. Well, not entirely. Not all private schools offer this magical free education. I know a few that basically told me I would have to pay for about half of it either out of student loans or my pocket. Good private school too. I'm at UC Santa Cruz and I get a damn good education here.
And money doesn't have as much to do with schools. Grades do.

And it's not reverse-discrimination. What you're implying is that we should say "fuck the poor" because, hey, why should they get the luxury of going to college? I'm terribly sorry that the rich just happen to have good jobs, educations, and shitloads of money. I feel so sorry for them. Gosh, I wish they could all be poor so they could be happy and in great fortune like those of us on the bottom. Yeah. Gosh, those poor rich people.

I agree, Alex needs to be a little more subjective when talking about schools - after all, I go to one of the most prestigious public schools in the country, which means I get a better education than 99% of private schools in my area. Again, its all subjective; however, when talking about colleges, it's always better to go to a private school than a public school. Always. Public schools are generally obscenely larger, shorter on cash, and less concerned with their students' academic welfare than private schools. An education at USF is nothing like an education at Harvard, MIT, U Chicago, Rice, Northwestern, Cornell, Emory...the list goes on and on. Public universities just can't compare.
This is bullshit. Complete and total bullshit. In fact, I go to a public school and the funds we receive are phenomenally larger than most private schools, and our student body isn't that much. I never said that USF is like Harvard. But the problem with Alex is he thinks he only has two choices. Private school or USF. That is bullshit too. He can go elsewhere.

And public universities do compare. Not all of them, but a lot of them do.

Define great university. USF is not a great university...actually, none of the public colleges besides the top echleon (UBerkeley, UCLA, UWashington, UVA, and UMichigan if I remember correctly) are that good comparatively.
Do the research and you'll find that a lot of public universities are at the top. And there are always differences by subject.



And I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for Alex's troubles. I'm sorry for the loss of his father, but his life is not all that hard. And it might do you some good to actually have to work for things. This whole discussion started because Alex said he would vote for McCain just so he could go to a private school, and then he proceeded to make the case that oh, private schools are just all the jazz and us public school kids are essentially retards, followed by what seems like an attitude that suggests that we public school folks just get handed everything on a silver platter and don't deserve it, blah blah.
I'm just thankful that Alex can't vote, because if people are making voting decisions based on such petty things as that, then this country truly is fucked.
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Old 10-17-2008, 05:49 PM View Post #88 (Link)
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On a secondary note, I'm closing this thread because it's clear we can't keep on topic...
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