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Old 12-07-2008, 12:04 AM View Post #21 (Link)
Shaun (Offline)
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Originally Posted by Zombified View Post
Whats funny is that all the girls here just said they don't have a problem taking the man's name.

These people are just too tightly wound and need to shut up before they start up another "Political Correctness" movement.
The girls here are not a representative sample, nor do they comprise of cross-generational groups.

They're not too tightly wound, Zombie. What you're suggesting right now is the same as suggesting that black people who get upset about subtle racism are too tightly wound. We have to acknowledge history to move forward in the future.
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:13 AM View Post #22 (Link)
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There's a big fucking difference between racism and the act of taking a man's last name when getting married.

Seriously.
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:18 AM View Post #23 (Link)
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I just think this is a strictly personal decision.
I mean, I plan on keeping my last name just because it's part of who I am. I wouldn't want to have to lose that, and I wouldn't ask my spouse to lose part of himself either. It does unite two people as a couple, but doesn't getting married do that too? Why do you have to change your last name to become a unit? I don't think you should have to. Marriage is more about love than it is about what your name is.
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:27 AM View Post #24 (Link)
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Originally Posted by Zombified View Post
There's a big fucking difference between racism and the act of taking a man's last name when getting married.

Seriously.
And this attitude of rejecting the complaints and concerns of women is precisely what led us into a world where women were unimportant and thus controlled by men in the first place. True equality does not separate people who have an objection to a pre-established institution. In this case the institution is the patriarchy that still has a stranglehold on marriage.
Similar discourses were used to exact racism and sexism, so while the target of the action might be different, the principles behind it are exactly the same. Worse yet is the fact that women have been slaves far longer than people of color, but we discount that because for so long it was considered acceptable to make women second class citizens and ignore all that had occurred before. That has to change.
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:32 AM View Post #25 (Link)
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When I get married I would want to take my husband's last name. It's a symbol of two lives becoming one (that was really corny). And there is no law that forces a woman to change her name. She can get a hyphen or keep her normal name. But most woman want to change their name so I don't think there is anything wrong with it.

*EDIT*

This is strictly personal but I partially want to take another name because I do not want to be part of my father's legacy. I think changing names at marriage is a way of disconnecting from parents and another milestone to adulthood. But that might just be my observation as a child.
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						Last edited by appleofmyeye; 12-07-2008 at 12:38 AM.
Old 12-07-2008, 12:33 AM View Post #26 (Link)
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Zomb, you have seriously got to calm down. I'm not calling you a sexist. I'm telling you what the argument is and why ignoring that argument and calling it "political correctness" garbage is contributing to the wrong side of the argument.
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:34 AM View Post #27 (Link)
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Originally Posted by appleofmyeye View Post
When I get married I would want to take my husband's last name. It's a symbol of two lives becoming one (that was really corny). And there is no law that forces a woman to change her name. She can get a hyphen or keep her normal name. But most woman want to change their name so I don't think there is anything wrong with it.
Is it that most women want this because they actually want it, or is it because they grow up in a society where that is the norm? How do you differentiate from true desire and coerced desire?
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:48 AM View Post #28 (Link)
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Hmm... good question. I mean, most ideals in modern society are pre-formulated and we just go with them. I may not have come up with the idea of changing my name but I do agree with it.
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Old 12-07-2008, 01:06 AM View Post #29 (Link)
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I wasn't saying that to say that you were coerced, I'm just saying that the issue is far more complex that it seems.
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Old 12-07-2008, 02:34 AM View Post #30 (Link)
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Originally Posted by Imelda View Post
I have a problem. I don't want to be 'LSD'. I also think it's about time people went back to traditional values and went with the matriarchal version of things. Much less violent. If it weren't for Christianity we wouldn't have to be dealing with sexism because it would likely have never developed in the matriarchal 'pagan' culture--everyone was much more equal back then.

And Zomb, they might have said they don't mind, but as soon as it's forced upon you it's a whole different matter. And you're pretty much saying women should take the man's name whether they like it or not. That's not a great attitude to have now, is it?
Rome was considered a heavily patriarchal society. In Greek society, so was Athens (in Spartan and Minoan culture, women, while still not considered equal to men, were comparatively more free).Unfortunately, my books on classical history aren't at hand right now, so I can't go into too much detail, but, even though women in both cultures dominated the priestly class, outside of that ordinary women and even many of the women of the wealthier classes were not nearly as well educated or could hold as much power as men. Even if you look at the Latin language, words that describe something that one would consider "bad" are usually femine. And the words, poeta, agricola, and nauta (poet, farmer, and sailor) despite having feminine endings, are always masculine, since it was inconceivable for a woman to hold any of those positions in the eyes of a Roman. (You can scream Sappho until you're blue in the face but 1) she was Greek, not Roman 2) She was the exception 3) In her poetry, women are still the object of affection).

Women not only could not act in the ancient Greek Dramas, but they weren't even allowed to watch. In Roman, women were only allowed to act in one certain type... I forgot which type in particular, though.

Likewise, ancient Scandinavia, even if women enjoyed many rights--though still not equal to men--was a very masculine culture. For a man to do anything "feminine" or "effeminate," such as cross dress, engage in homosexual behavior (punishable by death), etc. was frowned upon. Loki was shamed for turning into a mare, having sex with a giant's magical stallion, and then giving birth to sleipneir. He and Thor were both shamed for pretending to be women at I think Thyrm's wedding (He was promised Freyja because of some contest or something).

Before you accuse Christianity as being a singularly anti-matriarchal system, realize many pagan cultures, such as Greece, Rome, and Scandinavia also were patriarchal, even if their clergy was predominately female. Maybe the Celts were matriarchal--I don't know much about them--but Western culture's patriarchy has been a constant for thousands of years. Saying that it came out of Christianity is a pretty large claim, and unvalidated if you look at the facts.

EDIT: And calling a matriarchal society less violent, seems to be a sexist view...
  
						Last edited by Crocolyle; 12-07-2008 at 02:48 AM.
					
					 Reason: Really bad grammar...
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